Posts by Old Goat

65

any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds

by mind blown in

is any of this true?

historian, historian, david icke states, "...it was the rothschilds who funded the jehovah's witness operation into being, along with other illuminati bankerz (ie, kuhn, loeb, and co.), through "contributionz" by organizationz like the rothschild-controlled b'nai b'rith.

this was proved in a court of law in 1922. one of the key people involved in this was frank goldman who later became president of b'nai b'rith.

Old Goat

redvip,

All of that is wild speculation with no basis in FACT. The Russells were a protestant Irish family from Londonderry, Ireland. They were not German. Russell had no connection to Skull and Bones. Russell's uncle's will details the Londonderry connection, and at the time of the uncle's death there were still relations living in Derry. Russell was educated in Grant School in Pittsburgh, graduating from the Common School system then in use at the end of the seventh-grade. He had further education from a system of tutors sponsored by the YMCA who provided advanced courses for young men. All of this can be documented from available records.

Nothing of the dreck you seem to believe can be proven except in the demented mind of one man who was convicted in Federal court for his unsavory conduct. (And unlike Rutherford, never "exonerated.") Show us the original records.

C. T. Russell was not a Mason. Membership records for the Pittsburgh area lodges still exist. Neither his nor his father's name appears on any of them. His mother's brother was a Mason, but Russell was not.

Russell contributed far more than Conley. More than twice as much. Conley stopped contributing in 1882. By that year he was off into the Faith Cure movement and diverting his gifts to further Faith Cure Homes.

Sometimes I wonder if a tendency toward gullibility isn't what drew some of us to the Witnesses. Certainly having left them didn't cure some of us of the problem.

Among those records which still exist are the citizenship records for J. L. Russell, a ship's list for his immigration, newspaper articles detailing Russell and related family matters, descriptions of Grant School, Presbyterian church records, an article detailing Russell's connection to "private tutors" with a supplementary article describing the YMCA education program.

Present us with ONE record that proves Russell was a Mason or of German descent. It is time to stop being silly.

65

any truth 2 Russell funded by Rothchilds

by mind blown in

is any of this true?

historian, historian, david icke states, "...it was the rothschilds who funded the jehovah's witness operation into being, along with other illuminati bankerz (ie, kuhn, loeb, and co.), through "contributionz" by organizationz like the rothschild-controlled b'nai b'rith.

this was proved in a court of law in 1922. one of the key people involved in this was frank goldman who later became president of b'nai b'rith.

Old Goat

David Icke hardly qualifies as a "historian."

Russell wrote an open letter to one of the Rothchilds. They did not fund him. He didn't bother to reply. Would you have? The letter can be found in The Watch Tower reprints or by a search of any of the digitalized Watch Tower libraries put out by Bible Students.

Financial reports exist for the early 1880s and are found in the early issues of Zion's Watch Tower. Funding came from the Russells, Conley, the Smiths, A. D. Jones and some small donors. In the mid 1880s the tract society accounts were in arrears. Russell and his father sold property in Florida (1884-1885) to help pay the account current.

It is wrong to say that Conley provided all the money. A photo of the original contribution amounts from the 1881 document is on the towerhistory blog, an invitation only blog run by two historians (one a Witness) with academic credentials and ethics that Icke lacks. It shows initial contributions of $7000 from C. T. Russell, 2000 from A. D. Jones, 4000 from Conley, and 1000 from J. L. Russell. No amount is shown from the Smiths because J. F. Smith, one of the first dirctors of the PA corporation, did not become active until 1883. He was a well-known "merchant tailor." He remained in association with Russell until 1892.

17

Just finished reading 'The Crucible'

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

you know, by arthur miller?

well, it's a big deal for me because when i was in school i was assigned to read it, and my mom put a stop to it, going so far as to write a note to the teacher explaining that i couldn't read it because it had witchcraft in it.

there was a bit of back and forth with the teacher over that.

Old Goat

John Proctor is my 10th great grandfather. Miller's play is not good history, but it is a great play.

I can't imagine any Witnesses (except the totally clueless) objecting to it. I've assigned it to my students, even back in my Loyal Elder days.

21

Are JW's really not allowed to view apostate material?

by Joey Jo-Jo in

on youtube there is this man who recorded is judicial commitee, the point i am making is that the elders viewed his material on youtube as stated on the recording.. my question his are elders allowed to view apostate material but not non-elders?

when did this happen?

!.

Old Goat

The biggest collection of anti- and apostate material I've ever seen in one place is in the Writing Department Library/Archives in Brooklyn. Think about that. You can't read it. They can. They have the spiritual where-with-all to withstand it. You don't. They have a mind that can handle it; they don't think you do.

They're next to God. You ain't, bub.

13

Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

by Old Goat in

i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

"the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

Old Goat

Dear "Found",

I'm not upset, and I'm sure your intentions were pure.

There must be some Russellites on here who can document this from the other side. No?

13

Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

by Old Goat in

i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

"the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

Old Goat

My topic has been hijacked by a photo! Do we have details of the so-called 'evil servant's' attemtps to "subvert" Watchtower congregations after Rutherford's death?

We can say all sorts of interesting things about the 1917 split. I want details about what happened in 1942.

13

Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

by Old Goat in

i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

"the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

Old Goat

Schulz and de Vienne, the authors of Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet, on their private history blog have a long write up that is destined to be an appendix in their next book. I'm breaking rules by quoting it here, but then I've never been good at obeying all the rules:

A pyramid shaped monument was installed in the Bible Student cemetery in Pittsburgh. The cemetery is occasionally described as Masonic. It’s not. There is a Masonic temple nearby built years later. There is no connection. The pyramid was intended as a general monument with the names of those buried in the Watch Tower plots engraved onto open books. Rather than being a Masonic symbol, the open book motif derives from the book of Revelation. Those who want to cast Russell as part of some great Masonic conspiracy claim the pyramid embodies the “all seeing eye.” It does not. The pyramid symbol refers to Russell’s belief, shared by many others who did not otherwise hold his views, that the Great Pyramid at Gizah was a divinely inspired testimony in stone to Bible truth. We trace the development of this idea in Chapter Three. The use of the pyramid as a monument was suggested not by the back of the US dollar which had an entirely different design in 1920, but by the grave marker for Charles Piazzi Smyth, a prominent pyramidologist and Astronomer Royal of Scotland.

The monument was installed in 1919, some years after Russell’s death. One source suggests Russell designed it, a Bible Student convention report saying: “The Pyramid, as you will note, has an open book carved on each side, intended by Brother Russell for the names of Bethel workers as they ceased their work and were laid at rest, awaiting the great Resurrection of the first-fruits of the Lord.” [1] A Bible Student web page takes pains to blame the pyramid monument on Rutherford rather than Russell. Neither of these statements is correct. The monument was designed not as a memorial to Russell but “as a memorial to the society.” It was “designed by Brother Bohnet, and accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Society’s burial space.” According to Bohnet, work started in 1914. The pyramid’s purpose was not Masonic. [2]

[1] Souvenir Notes from the Reunion Convention of Christian Bible Students: Pittsburgh, Pa., November 1-2-3, 1929.

[2] Souvenir Notes from the Bible Student’s Convention: Pittsburgh, Pa., January 2-5, 1919, page 7.

13

Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

by Old Goat in

i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

"the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

Old Goat

I'm fairly certain the pyramid monument isn't related to Rutherford's death. It was put up about 1919 as a memorial to Watch Tower workers.

13

Rutherford's death and "the evil servant"

by Old Goat in

i became a witness a few years after rutherford died, so i know little about the events right after his death.

i found this in the march 1942 informant:.

"the effort of the demons is to scatter the lords sheep and to wean and lure them away from the lords theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the lords strange work.

Old Goat

I became a Witness a few years after Rutherford died, so I know little about the events right after his death. I found this in the March 1942 Informant:

"The effort of the demons is to scatter the Lord’s sheep and to wean and lure them away from the Lord’s Theocratic organization and thereby cause them to fail of performance in the Lord’s “strange work”. “He that gathered not with me scatterth,” and the Lord is using His organization in the gathering work. Instances are now reported that since the death of Brother Rutherford agents of the “evil servant” class, which regarded Brother Rutherford as a barrier and as an object of personal offense, are now calling at the homes of the Theocratic publishers and making inquiries as to the locations of meetings being conducted in the homes. The intent is plainly a demonic effort to infiltrate into the ranks of the newly interested and busily-occupied “sheep” and then try to cause doubts, misgivings, suspicions, division, controversies, and other schemes of the chief of demons to break up the unity and to distract their attention from the Lord’s table and from the work which it is the life-or-death obligation of God’s covenant people to perform. The faithful will safe-guard the Kingdom interests and will resist these efforts of the demons by refusing to give out any information to the crafty agents of the “evil servant” or other religionists."

Can anyone add details to this?

34

History of Witnessing in the UK.

by Chariklo in

when did things really take off for the wt in the uk?

can anyone help with some research ideas?.

the proclaimers book gives some ideas, but i'm wondering how quickly it grew.

Old Goat

According to Schulz and deVienne (Nelson Barbour: The Millennium's Forgotten Prophet), there was interest in the UK from the 1860s. They name and connect to articles by an Eliash H. Tucket, a Baptist turned follower of Barbour. A Christadelphian journal reviewed Barbour's Midnight Cry booklet and there were Herald of the Morning subscribers in the UK. On their web sites (one of which is invitation only) they reprint the review.

A Canadian writer noticed Zion's Watch Tower in an article published in Rainbow. Earlier Rainbow had reviwed Three Worlds. The first concerted effort in the UK was by two Americans sent by Russell, John Corbin Sunderlin (a pioneer era photographer and former Methodist minister) and Joseph J. Bender. The contracted the printing of thousands of copies of Food for Thinking Christians and had them circulated by messenger boys. Small congregations grew up almost over night, but they remaind very small.

A significant number of early converts within the United States were immigrants from the UK. They evangelized by mail, and Russell notes that one of them wrote letters to put interested readers in England and Scotland in touch with each other. That in brief, is the story as two reliable historians present it. What the Watchtower says is mostly wrong.